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Sun Jun 17, 2012, 01:29 PM

Ron Paul's Iowa maneuvers place GOP in awkward position

Source: Latimes

Ron Paul's Iowa maneuvers place GOP in awkward position

By Seema Mehta

June 16, 2012, 6:06 p.m.

DES MOINES ó Rick Santorum won the Iowa caucuses in January, with Mitt Romney a close second, but neither was the true winner this weekend when the delegates who actually will vote at the Republican National Convention were selected. That would be Ron Paul.

The congressman from Texas finished a distant third in the Iowa caucuses more than six months ago, but of the 28 delegates selected Friday and Saturday to head to the national convention, 23 are Paul supporters Ė and they are not bound to support the victor of the stateís first-in-the-nation voting contest.

Itís part of a quiet strategy by Paul and his backers to amass an army of supporters at the GOP gathering in August in Tampa, Fla., to push Paulís views on liberty, states' rights, the monetary system and foreign policy. By working arcane electoral rules and getting supporters into positions of power in local, county and state party operations, the strategy is paying dividends across the nation.


Read more: http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-ron-pauls-iowa-maneuvers-place-gop-in-awkward-position-20120616,0,3570263.story

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Arrow 55 replies Author Time Post
Reply Ron Paul's Iowa maneuvers place GOP in awkward position (Original post)
tawadi Jun 2012 OP
freshwest Jun 2012 #1
D23MIURG23 Jun 2012 #2
zbdent Jun 2012 #3
Kalidurga Jun 2012 #4
kestrel91316 Jun 2012 #5
UglyGreed Jun 2012 #45
kestrel91316 Jun 2012 #49
freshstart Jun 2012 #54
zbdent Jun 2012 #8
OnlinePoker Jun 2012 #14
longship Jun 2012 #6
sweetloukillbot Jun 2012 #9
D23MIURG23 Jun 2012 #11
longship Jun 2012 #12
sweetloukillbot Jun 2012 #18
longship Jun 2012 #22
Jim Lane Jun 2012 #26
D23MIURG23 Jun 2012 #10
longship Jun 2012 #13
D23MIURG23 Jun 2012 #15
longship Jun 2012 #44
unc70 Jun 2012 #35
freshstart Jun 2012 #41
Jamaal510 Jun 2012 #7
AtheistCrusader Jun 2012 #27
freshstart Jun 2012 #32
Dokkie Jun 2012 #38
dimbear Jun 2012 #16
tanyev Jun 2012 #19
tawadi Jun 2012 #23
Blue_Tires Jun 2012 #47
dimbear Jun 2012 #50
Rosa Luxemburg Jun 2012 #53
Iliyah Jun 2012 #17
freshwest Jun 2012 #20
AtheistCrusader Jun 2012 #28
freshwest Jun 2012 #29
AtheistCrusader Jun 2012 #30
freshwest Jun 2012 #33
Dokkie Jun 2012 #39
AtheistCrusader Jun 2012 #46
JDPriestly Jun 2012 #21
think Jun 2012 #24
otherone Jun 2012 #31
freshstart Jun 2012 #34
gopiscrap Jun 2012 #25
cbrer Jun 2012 #36
KurtNYC Jun 2012 #37
freshstart Jun 2012 #40
KurtNYC Jun 2012 #42
freshstart Jun 2012 #43
Blue_Tires Jun 2012 #48
KurtNYC Jun 2012 #51
freshstart Jun 2012 #55
little elvis Jun 2012 #52

Response to tawadi (Original post)

Sun Jun 17, 2012, 01:39 PM

1. Oh, pardon me, I thought this thread was about bathroom stalls. My bad.

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Sun Jun 17, 2012, 01:42 PM

2. I've seen other articles like this indicating that Paul supporters are trying to ratfuck the RNC...

by packing the floor with Ron Paul supporting delegates. I don't support Ron Paul, but if he and his supporters want to make a mess of the Republican Convention, I'd be all for it...

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Sun Jun 17, 2012, 01:43 PM

3. Please, Mr. Paul ... please push the GOP further and further to

the maniacal right ...

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Response to zbdent (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 17, 2012, 01:46 PM

4. I don't see how they could go much further....

without stoning people they think aren't upholding their ideas of morality.

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Response to Kalidurga (Reply #4)

Sun Jun 17, 2012, 01:47 PM

5. The Dominionist camp is quite open about wanting to bring back stonings.

And they half control the RW these days.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #5)

Mon Jun 18, 2012, 08:34 PM

45. Look into Christian Reconstructism

Ron Paul believes in it as does his buddies Gary North, Lew Rockwell and the man Ron Paul endorsed for President in 2008 Chuck Baldwin. Who by the way is also a Neo-Confederate. Nice folks...

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Response to UglyGreed (Reply #45)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:08 PM

49. Dominionists = Christian Reconstructionists. They are the folks who see The Handmaid's Tale

as utopia.

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Response to UglyGreed (Reply #45)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 04:52 PM

54. Yep....

did you read about biblical capitalism....they are into that too. And that is some scary shit.

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Response to Kalidurga (Reply #4)

Sun Jun 17, 2012, 01:50 PM

8. Stoning? Well, when we were kids, we WISHED they would only stone us ...

(nod to Monty Python)

Really, I doubt that there is a bottom to the depths that the Righties will plunge to ...

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Response to zbdent (Reply #8)

Sun Jun 17, 2012, 02:23 PM

14. Only way Republicans want you to get stoned is if they're throwing them at you. n/t

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Sun Jun 17, 2012, 01:48 PM

6. How many more states has the Ayn Rand cult taken from the Republicans?

I have heard of a few here recently.

AK, MN, MT??

Are there others? Does anybody have a count of the delegates?

This may be important because we know that this has happened before, in the 70's and 80's, when the religious right took over the entire Republican party using just these tactics. If you get a majority of the precinct delegates, you get the majority all the way up the chain. It is very easy to get elected delegate at the precinct level. I know. I've done it multiple times.

So where does Ron Paul stand on this? How wide spread is the infection?

We need to pay close attention to this. And do not presume that this is good for the Democratic party. It isn't any better than the religious right being in power. It only trades one unmoving ideological cult for another. Both are bad. And in some ways the Ayn Randers are worse.

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Response to longship (Reply #6)

Sun Jun 17, 2012, 01:59 PM

9. Is this going to be any more than a sideshow?

As I understand the process it doesn't matter if they're Ron Paul delegates. In the first round, if Mitt won the state, they have to vote for Mitt. And since he's locked up the nomination, it's not going to get to the second round.

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Response to sweetloukillbot (Reply #9)

Sun Jun 17, 2012, 02:14 PM

11. As I understand it they aren't technically bound to vote for any given candidate under party rules.

If they want to make a scene by turning states over to Paul, they can do that. Its hard for me to imagine them getting enough states to actually give Paul the nomination though, and if they managed that, its hard for me to imagine the party wouldn't find some method for overruling it.

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Response to sweetloukillbot (Reply #9)

Sun Jun 17, 2012, 02:14 PM

12. I don't know. Today's report on IA states otherwise.

That's why we need to know and why it may be very important.

I've asked these questions because I am ignorant of these affairs since the Repubs set their own rules.

But if the Rand cult delegates go rogue on the first ballot, there may be some real chair throwing (so to speak) in Tampa. If the rules say they can, Rmoney could be in trouble.

Again, how many states, and which ones, have the Ayn Randers done this?

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Response to longship (Reply #12)

Sun Jun 17, 2012, 03:39 PM

18. Maybe its a caucus vs. primary thing

I know this is the first time I remember that they made the point during the caucus coverage that the results were "non-binding." I think they did that in IA and MO. Didn't some Paultards go rogue in primary states as well?
I dunno, even if it doesn't change the outcome, it's going to be entertaining...

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Response to sweetloukillbot (Reply #18)

Sun Jun 17, 2012, 04:39 PM

22. Neither. These are state Rep conventions

But if the majority of delegates that are voting for state delegates are Paulites, the delegates going to the national convention are going to be Paulites.

In the past couple of months the same has been reported here in DU for a few other states.

I just don't know what to make of it. Yesterday, it was reported that the IA Paul delegates (21 of 25, IIRC) may not honor any commitment.

That was the purpose of my posts here.

What's going on?

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Response to sweetloukillbot (Reply #9)

Sun Jun 17, 2012, 11:22 PM

26. I think the main purpose relates to the platform.

I have a vague recollection of reading that, if five state delegations propose a motion, it must be taken up by the entire Convention. If that's so, then Paul, by purloining majorities in five delegations where he didn't win the primary or caucus, could trot out a series of his pet positions. Even if all were voted down, it would be his chance to promote libertarianism on a national stage.

This could be great for us. Suppose the Convention has to vote on amending the platform to call for complete privatization of Social Security, or the restoration of the gold standard, or some such. Then Romney must tell his minions to vote for it (he'll look unacceptably wacko to the sensible people whose support he needs), or tell them to vote against it (he'll look unacceptably sensible to the wackos whose support he needs), or duck and say that his delegates are free to vote their consciences (he'll look like a wuss to everybody).

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Response to longship (Reply #6)

Sun Jun 17, 2012, 02:09 PM

10. Its interesting to learn that this tactic helped religious right, but I don't understand...

your worry. The godbots and the party brass aren't going to let this go without a fight, because they won't want to run Paul against Obama, and the Republican primary voters didn't pick Paul. I'm also not sure what part of the republican party wouldn't qualify as an "unmoving ideological cult". They are all completely illogical about almost everything.

Do you know something that I don't about how this might play out? I'm just seeing a possibility for republican infighting on a massive scale.

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Response to D23MIURG23 (Reply #10)

Sun Jun 17, 2012, 02:21 PM

13. I don't know the answers. That's why I asked.

I was hoping that somebody here can enlighten me. Because certainly Rand is doing this for some purpose. I am merely trying to discern what that purpose could be.

It could be another danger to the Democrats that we should look out for. If that's the case, we need to be aware of it now.

Thanks for your questions. But I am asking the same ones.

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Response to longship (Reply #13)

Sun Jun 17, 2012, 02:44 PM

15. I've heard about incidents in OK and NV

He got the majority of the delegates in NV
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/ron-paul-wins-majority-of-nevada-delegates/2012/05/06/gIQA1An15T_blog.html

His supporters cause a major disturbance in the OK convention
http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/ad-lib/2012/may/14/ron-paul-and-mitt-romney-supporters-brawl-oklahoma/

The article about OK has Paul on record saying he doesn't want to disrupt the RNC, he is just trying to get as many delegates as he can. Which doesn't make any sense at all when you consider that loosing by one gets you the same thing as loosing by 1000. I don't know what his real purpose is, but I'm guessing at very least he wants something from the party brass in exchange for not ruining the national convention. As for his supporting delegates, who the hell knows what they will do. They don't strike me as team players at any rate.

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Response to D23MIURG23 (Reply #10)

Mon Jun 18, 2012, 05:23 PM

44. Yes, and I agree. Here's what I am thinking...

I really do not think Paul has a ghost of a chance to win the nomination. And he is undoubtedly smart enough to know that as well. Furthermore, his age is against him for running in four years.

So why is he doing this? He seems to be replicating this in enough states that the Democratic party should be aware of this. Certainly the news media should be reporting it. But all we hear is crickets.

I am merely puzzled by the behavior and am wondering what the hell is going on and what the possible consequences are of ignoring it, or saying that it cannot be important.

I am no conspiracy theorist. But it does seem that Paul may be attempting what the fundie Christians did in the 70's and 80's. If so, shouldn't we as a party be paying attention?

Shouldn't we consider and try to find out how prevalent this behavior is to determine whether it can influence this or future elections?

Above all, I am asking questions because I just don't know what this means. But my Spidey sense is tingling because I have seen these tactics before.

Thanks for your questions and comments.

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Response to longship (Reply #6)

Mon Jun 18, 2012, 04:34 AM

35. Also Maine. Paul got all but three delegates

Can't remember which other states.

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Response to longship (Reply #6)

Mon Jun 18, 2012, 12:22 PM

41. And Ron Paul is heavily tied to the religious right

Last edited Mon Jun 18, 2012, 12:58 PM - Edit history (3)

has been since the 1970s. I agree with your point of view.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=0u4vAAAAIBAJ&sjid=n_sDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6540,2238463&dq=moral+majority+howard+phillips&hl=en

"Viguerie has long been associated with conservative activist Howard Phillips through creation of the Moral Majority in 1979."
"In January 2008, Viguerie launched ultimateronpaul.com, a website designed to promote the 2008 presidential candidacy of U.S. Congressman Ron Paul, whom Viguerie described as "truly a principled conservative in the grand tradition of Robert Taft, Barry Goldwater, and Ronald Reagan" and who "has differentiated himself from all the other candidates, whose allegiance is to Big Government Republicanism."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Viguerie

The three of them involved in 1978...Ron Paul, Howard Phillips and Richard Viguerie.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=x20aAAAAIBAJ&sjid=iikEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6897,5399859&dq=ron+paul+howard+phillips+richard+viguerie+shadow+cabinet&hl=en

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Sun Jun 17, 2012, 01:48 PM

7. Interesting how RP followers say they want to "bring conservatism back to the party".

Yet almost everybody else, including Jeb Bush and Colin Powell, thinks the GOP has gone too far to the right. It's incredible that not even Mitt Robme is far enough to the right for them, considering he wants a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage, he wants even lower taxes on "job creators" and higher taxes on everyone else, and he wants to cut all social programs.

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Response to Jamaal510 (Reply #7)

Mon Jun 18, 2012, 01:26 AM

27. Different issues.

The RP followers want the small government, humble foreign policy platform that Bush RAN on, and then promptly abandoned when his ass started warming the chair in the Oval Office.

RP's domestic social services policy is of course abhorrent, he'd torch just about every safety net. But his foreign policy is fantastic.

Too bad, that the right foreign policy position comes with a poison pill like his social policy.


Paul is like the old-school Goldwater republican. Back when a Republican held an endorsement from Planned Parenthood. When gridlock and fillibuster wasn't republican policy step 1 in every last thing done in congress.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #27)

Mon Jun 18, 2012, 01:56 AM

32. I personally don't buy what Ron Paul says his foreign policy is.

I've done a ton of research on him over the years and his ties to the conservative caucus. They were heavy involved in the Contra scandal and have been sticking their nose in foreign policy. Personally, I think Ron Paul is full of shit. http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=u4ksAAAAIBAJ&sjid=AM0EAAAAIBAJ&pg=6887,3659648&dq=ron+paul+shadow+cabinet&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Nn9UAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Bo8DAAAAIBAJ&dq=conservative%20caucus%20china&pg=3554%2C613202

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Response to freshstart (Reply #32)

Mon Jun 18, 2012, 09:37 AM

38. Yea, Ron Paul is really

 

faking his anti interventionist stance, its just as believable as Saddam hiding his WMD because he was more afraid of the Iranians knowing he didn't have any WMD than the US thinking he had one.

If there is one thing true about Ron Paul is his foreign policy stance

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Sun Jun 17, 2012, 02:45 PM

16. There hasn't been a Republican convention that was comedy gold for a long time.

High hopes for this one.

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Response to dimbear (Reply #16)

Sun Jun 17, 2012, 03:54 PM

19. Yep. Might just have to DVR the whole thing.

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Response to dimbear (Reply #16)

Sun Jun 17, 2012, 05:50 PM

23. Should be interesting. eom

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Response to dimbear (Reply #16)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:54 AM

47. We'll see if the Paulites live up to their role of useful idiots

Since the nuttier ones have no qualms of burning their party to the ground if their guy doesn't have a feature role...

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #47)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 04:26 PM

50. You are correct, but I predict Romney folds up and lets Paul do whatever.

Romney will fold up like one of those fancy oriental fans, the ones decorated with jade and feathers.

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Response to dimbear (Reply #50)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 06:18 PM

53. LOL!

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Sun Jun 17, 2012, 03:04 PM

17. Ayn Rand

was an atheist, zip no love for GAWD, so today's Libertarian is a off set of her beliefs. They only took some ideals that they liked and ignores the rest.

Is it possible that Paul wants his son to be VP? I dunno, but like the a lot of the GOP, a lot of the Libertarians are nutso.

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Response to Iliyah (Reply #17)

Sun Jun 17, 2012, 03:56 PM

20. I think he wants a Mitt Romney/Rand Paul ticket. It would unite the party.

They are both Randians and want the entire government to disappear. All of it.

They want a civil war to take place and feel they're in a position to benefit from it.

Papa Paul's staff has said they would install a theocracy later after getting in. The Christian Right leaders have embraced Mitt, forgetting their past depictions of Mormonism as a cult.

Religion isn't what this really is about. It's about money and power.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #20)

Mon Jun 18, 2012, 01:27 AM

28. If Paul endorses Romney, the paulbots will chuck his ass overboard instantly.

They are fucking FROTHING about the primary process.

This is a lot of fun to watch.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #28)

Mon Jun 18, 2012, 01:44 AM

29. I mean, if Romney selects Rand, Ron will support his son. Why don't you think so?

Rand has already offered himself for the position of Romney's running mate:

Rand Paul: Would be 'an honor' to be Romney's VP


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/08/rand-paul-would-be-an-honor-to-be-romneys-vp/

Rand Paul Endorses Mitt Romney for President; Ron Paul Says He Can't Win GOP Nom

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/item/11664-rand-paul-endorses-mitt-romney-for-president-ron-paul-says-he-cant-win-gop-nom

There isn't a dime's worth of difference between the father and the son. The Paulbots despite being mad now, are still not going to vote for Obama against Romney. If they don't vote for Romney, those who are simply hating Obama will fall in line and Rand's supporters will see their future enshrined by seeing him as VP. They have a longer strategy in mind.


JMNO. We'll see who's right about it, you or me. But I am not happy about any drama at the GOP convention that will lead independents to think that the crank ideology of Paul or the vulture capitalist Romney are reasonable alternatives to Obama.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #29)

Mon Jun 18, 2012, 01:53 AM

30. Because it will mean endorsing Romney.

Having Rand as VP won't assuage the paulbots.

Not unless Romney simultaneously annouces taking up travelling in single-engine aircraft.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #30)

Mon Jun 18, 2012, 01:58 AM

33. I edited it with links, I still think if not the Paulbots, the other baggers will sign on.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #33)

Mon Jun 18, 2012, 09:40 AM

39. My guess is that the baggers

 

whose only goal is to defeat Obama have already joined the Romney camp. Only way to get the socialist, black Muslim off their white house

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Response to freshwest (Reply #33)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:59 AM

46. Sure, that's true. The teabaggers will vote for Romney.

There is a clear divide between the paulbots and the baggers, and if my observations are correct, the paulbots are the minority.

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Sun Jun 17, 2012, 04:11 PM

21. Progressives in the Democratic Party: Take note. This is how Progressives gained

a say in our Party in California in the 1960s. We need to do this again.

On edit, the religious right took over beginning in the 1970s and worked their way to the presidency in 2000 if not before.

Now, the Paulites are trying to take over.

That tells me that, contrary to the propaganda on TV, the Republican Party is ideologically bankrupt and that various factions see it as up for grabs.

The demise of the Republican Party MAY be sooner than I would have thought possible a few years ago.

The Democratic Party -- 1968. It was a transformation of our party. The Party had achieved some of its purpose -- statutes insuring equal rights for theretofore oppressed groups. The old conservatives split off from the progressives. Clinton managed to keep everyone on board for his eight years. The ultimate fate of the Democratic Party is still uncertain.

Now, the fate of the Republican Party is coming in question. The Bush administration was a display of overconfidence -- and now, no matter what happens at the Republican convention, they will swing even further to the right as they try to keep the Paulists on board just for the votes.

Interesting times. Frightening times.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #21)

Sun Jun 17, 2012, 10:05 PM

24. Great post.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #21)

Mon Jun 18, 2012, 01:56 AM

31. noted

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #21)

Mon Jun 18, 2012, 01:59 AM

34. Careful what you wish for.

That is their plan, they want to send their voters further right to Howard Phillips Constitution Party. Ron Paul has been closely tied to Phillips since the 1970s.

"But Phillips has his sights set on more than defeating Obama; he'd like to blow up the Republican Party as well. For more than a decade, Phillips has been hard at work building the infrastructure of the Constitution Party, which he believes could pick up the most socially right-leaning fragments of the GOP in the event of an intraparty split. If Barack Obama wins the presidency, Phillips believes, this could be that moment."

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2008/11/howard-phillips-world

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Sun Jun 17, 2012, 10:33 PM

25. I love it when Paul does crap like this!!!

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Mon Jun 18, 2012, 06:06 AM

36. And splinter the GOP!

 

Thanks Buddy!

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Mon Jun 18, 2012, 07:57 AM

37. Ron Paul has gone farther in exposing the farce that is our media and democracy in 2012

than anyone else I can think of. He scared the GOP so badly in 2008 that they created the TEA party to try and channel his splinter group back into the mainstream nonsense that is the GOP.

The MSM tries their best to repeat the mantra that 'Ron Paul can't win' and then put everything that happens into that frame but the truth is Ron Paul could rip the weakened GOP in half.

For now Ron Paul is a big old libertarian harpoon in the Moby Dick that is Romney and it is going to be one hell of a ride.

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Response to KurtNYC (Reply #37)

Mon Jun 18, 2012, 11:59 AM

40. I don't buy that

Last edited Mon Jun 18, 2012, 01:54 PM - Edit history (5)

Ron Paul is part of the GOP...and has been tied to the same people as Bush...Lewis Lehrman and others. My biggest issue with the media...why don't they expose Ron Paul? Ron Paul was part of the Citizens United. http://www.law.stanford.edu/publications/projects/campaignfinance/collection/paul/paul.11.6.pdf

Lewis Lehrman invests in Arbusto Oil...W's company. And he wrote a "Case for Gold" with Ron Paul. "The roster of prominent partners in Bush's oil ventures could have been extracted from a business world's who's who: drugstore magnate and onetime New York Republican gubernatorial candidate Lewis Lehrman and Lehrman family trusts ($140,500 over a three-year period)"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/bush073099.htm

Here is Lewis Lehrman at Ron Paul's hearing in 2011. This is Lehrman &feature=relmfu

He hired Doug Bandow. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?108392-Ron-Paul-Campaign-Announces-Addition-of-New-Policy-Advisors

Bandow is closely tied to Jack Abramoff. http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/dec2005/nf20051216_1037_db016.htm
You have to scroll down to see that article.

Where did they get that Social Security was a ponzi scheme? Bandow was saying it on Ron Paul's website in 2002. http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/uncle-sams-retirement-scam/

Ron Paul's group FREE/NEFL - is funded by all Koch funded groups...and they were the ones that financed the tea party. I don't buy the b.s. that he's against the GOP. That is a myth, they work together. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_for_Rational_Economics_and_Education

Ron Paul has been tied to the Koch brothers for years. http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=OK1NAAAAIBAJ&sjid=0vsDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5942,4020354&dq=ron+paul+citizens+for+a+sound+economy&hl=en

Citizens for a Sound Economy is FREEDOMWORKS a/k/a the "tea party" funded by the Koch brothers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_for_a_Sound_Economy

David Koch was an early financial backer.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=z0osAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ps4EAAAAIBAJ&pg=4875,3514845&dq=ron+paul+david+koch&hl=en

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Response to freshstart (Reply #40)

Mon Jun 18, 2012, 02:17 PM

42. Ross Perot likely cost Bush Sr his second term

in a very similar run. If Ron Paul wants to stay in this thing and hurt Romney then he will and he will.

If he does on the Koch's money fine. The enemy of my enemy is my ally (sort of).

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Response to KurtNYC (Reply #42)

Mon Jun 18, 2012, 02:25 PM

43. I don't see it that way.

Last edited Mon Jun 18, 2012, 06:02 PM - Edit history (5)

I think Ron Paul and his cult of followers are dangerous, period. These are the people that pushed the conversation further right. And, they'll continue to do so. In the 70s their goal was to take over both parties. I've got to dig a bit for that article.

"The new conservative group is non-partisan. Its goal is to muster up support for the conservative politicians in both parties and possibly mount an independent conservative candidate in 1976."
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=btJOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=LAIEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7324,2668089&dq=conservative+caucus+take+over+both+parties&hl=en

"When the Democratic Party has twice as much support as the Republicans, they should receive 50% of our resources Viguerie says. We don't have to move millions of voters into the Democratic Party, they're already there."
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=iXMjAAAAIBAJ&sjid=P2cEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6851,5004978&dq=conservative+caucus+take+over+both+parties&hl=en

I have the full article on this..but I don't think I can post it because it is a pdf. http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F30910FC3C5F137B93C1A81789D95F428785F9

Richard Viguerie, Howard Phillips and Ron Paul have been tied since the 1970s...and this is what they were after. I don't think they've changed much since then either. I don't take my eyes off what the kook is doing, because they've got a method to their madness and what they are up to isn't good.

The Koch brothers and their ilk should concern everyone interested in democracy. Ron Paul ties to them in many ways. "The donors, like regulars Foster Friess and Rich DeVos." http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0612/77453_Page3.html#ixzz1yBT55vLs

The same Richard DeVos and his wife Betsy that funded Citizens United, which Ron Paul was a plaintiff on the side of.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/citizens-united-fec-return-corporate-influence-peddling/story?id=9545153

The same Betsy DeVos that is involved with undermining public education. This is her group and if you click on "policy leaders" you'll see Ron Paul is there as is Howard Phillips. http://www.schoolandstate.org/proclamation.htm

And, Ron Paul's Superpac is located in Utah and was founded by Ladd Christensen, a person who gave big $$ to Romney and who is Jon Huntsman's business partner. Think they don't play together at your own risk.

The b.s. about Ron Paul being a victim of the GOP is the same b.s. they floated about Sarah Palin and Palin had a majority of Bush people on her team. It is an effort to gain sympathy.

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Response to KurtNYC (Reply #37)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:57 AM

48. The real farce is that Paul can't run on the issues

Because of course, the total picture of his issues is contradictory and batshit insane -- So he needs the goon squad to strong-arm people behind the scenes...

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #48)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 05:11 PM

51. Ron Paul has pulled this delegate thing with Iowa and is now

setting up for some kind of deal with Romney and the GOP leaders. Kochs write checks to Romney and Paul so perhaps they are good cop / bad cop'ing Romney.

Paul won early straw polls and came second in the Ames by .9% He took 21% of Iowa (to Romney's 25%), 23% of New Hampshire, 27% of Minnesota, etc. He is spoiling for something now.

The GOP and the MSM will try to figure out how to get Ron Paul's die hards to go to the polls in November and that won't be easy because Romney is no libertarian and he can't fake anything apparently. But Romney will try and it won't be pretty.

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Response to KurtNYC (Reply #51)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 05:11 PM

55. Yes, KurtNYC

You are on to what is going on. The Kochs give to Rand, but hide their donations to Ron through FREE-NEFL. It is the ideology that they push openly through Ron Paul. And, Ron Paul is not the "saint" that some people make him out to be. I highly doubt that a person with good intentions would have picked a person who was writing op-eds favorable to Jack Ambramoff for cash for a policy advisor. If you take his relationships back further, he is tied to Nelson Bunker Hunt...the clown that tried to corner the silver market with Saudis via the Federal Reserve. And, he wrote the book a "Case for Gold" with a long time associate of the Bush family. Ron Paul is full of shit....but he does things methodically. I'm still amazed the media hasn't gone after him, I can't figure that out.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #48)

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