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Wed Jul 18, 2012, 04:29 PM

I have lost much respect for Mormons in getting to know Romney

I always thought of Mormons as hard-working, thrifty people with a strong moral code.

The revelations of the ethics of the Romney family have made me realize that my perceptions were not correct. The Romneys rival the Bushes for fraud, graft, deceit and un-Americanism.

How did a pillar of the Mormon church ascend, with all that corruption going on?

Who are rank and file Mormons, anyway? Is the hoarding of foodstuffs that they do in any way connected to Romney's hoarding of money?

I apologize in advance to any Mormon DU-ers. I seek enlightenment.

82 replies, 6503 views

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Reply I have lost much respect for Mormons in getting to know Romney (Original post)
grasswire Jul 2012 OP
arbusto_baboso Jul 2012 #1
Erose999 Jul 2012 #2
grasswire Jul 2012 #5
LadyHawkAZ Jul 2012 #23
Rambis Jul 2012 #54
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #58
benld74 Jul 2012 #3
reformist2 Jul 2012 #4
Occulus Jul 2012 #15
Mopar151 Jul 2012 #41
crazyjoe Jul 2012 #6
Jayce Cox Jul 2012 #7
treestar Jul 2012 #14
grasswire Jul 2012 #17
wickerwoman Jul 2012 #22
_ed_ Jul 2012 #43
wickerwoman Jul 2012 #64
_ed_ Jul 2012 #74
wickerwoman Jul 2012 #79
KamaAina Jul 2012 #76
treestar Jul 2012 #30
JanMichael Jul 2012 #49
_ed_ Jul 2012 #80
uponit7771 Jul 2012 #34
Sheepshank Jul 2012 #42
Whisp Jul 2012 #45
JanMichael Jul 2012 #48
Jayce Cox Jul 2012 #63
soccer1 Jul 2012 #8
scorpiogirl Jul 2012 #9
backscatter712 Jul 2012 #10
Iggy Jul 2012 #28
Sheepshank Jul 2012 #44
DCBob Jul 2012 #11
REP Jul 2012 #12
atreides1 Jul 2012 #57
riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #13
lunatica Jul 2012 #24
sadbear Jul 2012 #16
JI7 Jul 2012 #18
uponit7771 Jul 2012 #37
Sheepshank Jul 2012 #46
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #59
RFKHumphreyObama Jul 2012 #19
AverageJoe90 Jul 2012 #82
limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #20
eShirl Jul 2012 #21
Iggy Jul 2012 #27
eShirl Jul 2012 #70
eridani Jul 2012 #25
HappyMe Jul 2012 #51
Iggy Jul 2012 #26
backscatter712 Jul 2012 #61
Jayce Cox Jul 2012 #67
backscatter712 Jul 2012 #68
OregonBlue Jul 2012 #29
sadbear Jul 2012 #31
OregonBlue Jul 2012 #33
uponit7771 Jul 2012 #36
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #60
Hippo_Tron Jul 2012 #69
dembotoz Jul 2012 #32
uponit7771 Jul 2012 #35
flamingdem Jul 2012 #38
Freddie Jul 2012 #78
Tom Rinaldo Jul 2012 #39
Marrah_G Jul 2012 #40
Nye Bevan Jul 2012 #47
JanMichael Jul 2012 #50
JanMichael Jul 2012 #53
uponit7771 Jul 2012 #65
Nye Bevan Jul 2012 #66
eridani Jul 2012 #71
get the red out Jul 2012 #52
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #55
Enrique Jul 2012 #56
MadHound Jul 2012 #62
Raine Jul 2012 #72
Bigmack Jul 2012 #73
Nye Bevan Jul 2012 #75
_ed_ Jul 2012 #81
Democrats_win Jul 2012 #77

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 04:31 PM

1. As a former mormon.....

One of the reasons I left that "church" is the rank materialism I saw among members. Most are no better than Mitt. Sure, there are exceptions. But largely, mormons have a shallow sex-centered view of "morality".

There's a reason why Utah is the nation's capital, both for anti-depressant use, and for consumer fraud...

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Response to grasswire (Original post)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 04:31 PM

2. You had respect for mormons? Maybe its because some of my good friends in high school were ex-commun


ex-communicated mormons, but I thought they were widely regarded as a cult by pretty much everyone.

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Response to Erose999 (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 06:14 PM

5. sure, I know they are a cult and all that gibberish

....with the magic underwear etc. But I never thought of them as corrupt people, but rather like I think of pioneer stock who practiced thrift and old values.

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Response to grasswire (Reply #5)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 07:14 AM

23. A lot of the rank and file are like that

but the church is like any other oversized corporation: the guys at the top are corrupt, ruthless or both, and the regular rules don't apply to them.

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Response to grasswire (Reply #5)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:36 AM

54. I can't afford another child "just have another kid the government will pay"

overheard while the loading gym equipment in Colorado- All the guys loading stuff were Mormons who's wives were living on government assistance of one form or another. They were bragging about it!

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Response to grasswire (Reply #5)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:56 AM

58. Mountain Meadows Massacre

Yes, it happened a long ago, but two things: 1. the LDS leadership still says it was all the horrible brutal Indians who did it and 2. the LDS Leadership still has that type of insular, CYA mentality, very much not too thrilled with outsiders. They remind me of Scientologists in that way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre


The Mountain Meadows massacre was a series of attacks on the Baker–Fancher emigrant wagon train, at Mountain Meadows in southern Utah. The attacks culminated on September 11, 1857 with the mass slaughter of the emigrant party by the Iron County district of the Utah Territorial Militia and some local Native Americans.

The wagon train—composed almost entirely of families from Arkansas—was bound for California on a route that passed through the Utah Territory during a turbulent period later known as the Utah War. After arriving in Salt Lake City, the Baker–Fancher party made their way south, eventually stopping to rest at Mountain Meadows. While the emigrants were camped at the meadow, nearby militia leaders, including Isaac C. Haight and John D. Lee, made plans to attack the wagon train. The militia, officially called the Nauvoo Legion, was composed of Utah's Mormon settlers (members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or LDS Church). Intending to give the appearance of Native American aggression, their plan was to arm some Southern Paiute Native Americans and persuade them to join with a larger party of their own militiamen—disguised as Native Americans—in an attack.

During the initial assault on the wagon train, the emigrants fought back and a five-day siege ensued. Eventually fear spread among the militia's leaders that some emigrants had caught sight of white men, and had probably discovered who their attackers really were. This resulted in an order by militia commander William H. Dame for the emigrants' annihilation. Running low on water and provisions, the emigrants allowed a party of militiamen to enter their camp, who assured them of their safety and escorted them out of their hasty fortification. After walking a distance from the camp, the militiamen, with the help of auxiliary forces hiding nearby, attacked the emigrants. Intending to leave no witnesses of complicity by Mormons in the attacks, and to prevent reprisals that would further complicate the Utah War, the perpetrators killed all the adults and older children (totaling about 120 men, women, and children). Seventeen children, all younger than seven, were spared. Following the massacre the perpetrators hastily buried the victims, leaving their bodies vulnerable to wild animals and the climate. Local families took in the surviving children, and many of the victims' possessions were auctioned off. Investigations, temporarily interrupted by the American Civil War, resulted in nine indictments during 1874. Of the men indicted, only John D. Lee was tried in a court of law. After two trials in the Utah Territory, Lee was convicted by a jury and executed. Today historians attribute the massacre to a combination of factors including both war hysteria and strident Mormon teachings. Scholars still debate whether senior Mormon leadership, including Brigham Young, directly instigated the massacre or if responsibility lies with the local leaders of southern Utah.

<snip>

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Response to grasswire (Original post)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 04:33 PM

3. Bbbbut they got tayvee commeitials an everythin!

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Response to grasswire (Original post)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 04:34 PM

4. The Osmonds and that Choir did wonders for their reputation...


I think it's safe to say Mitt has almost singlehandedly washed it all away...

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 09:27 PM

15. And that choir isn't even all that good.

I performed with Regional Honors Choirs in high school that were better, and I mean that in all seriousness.

The Mormon Tabernacle Choir or whatever it's called sounds like a bunch of soloist divas trying to sing as an ensemble.

No thanks.

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #4)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:07 AM

41. Some of the things the Osmonds have said in th epast few years

Aren't complimentary to the Morman culture

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Response to grasswire (Original post)


Response to grasswire (Original post)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 06:55 PM

7. Pure anti-mormon bunk!

Last edited Sun Jul 29, 2012, 08:24 PM - Edit history (1)

Your whole premise is crazy. Do we hold all United Methodist in low regard because of George W. Bush, are all Quakers anti social communist plotters because of Nixon. Romney in no way affects how I practice my Mormon faith. I have a years supply of food stored in my basement not because I'm getting ready for my episode of Hoarders, but because my family has endured times of job loss and were able to survive without seeking help, and at other times have been able to help neighbors (all of whom are not Mormons) during difficult times in their lives. I am a "rank and file" mormon and a democrat. Does Harry Reid being a mormon help to balance out Brother Romney's shortcomings? In this new era of anonymous posting and commenting the dialog has really hit some new lows. Would you say this out loud in mixed company. The apology in advance seems so sincere.
Bless your Heart Grasswire

Jayce Cox
Helena, Montana

Op-Ed http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765592705/It-is-OK-to-disagree-not-dehumanize.html

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Response to Jayce Cox (Reply #7)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 09:20 PM

14. +1

Welcome to DU!

Agreed, OP is working out a bigoted stereotype.

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Response to treestar (Reply #14)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 02:30 AM

17. no, you are wrong

What did I say?

I had a fairly good opinion of Mormons until Romney demonstrated a scurrilous and meanspirited ethics. I asked if his ethics were typical of Mormons.

How is that a "bigoted stereotype"?

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Response to grasswire (Reply #17)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 07:08 AM

22. Because you're calling an entire faith into question based on the actions of one member.

On the other hand, believing men (and only men) get their own planets when they die is clearly bonkers. Same with God making coffee and then not wanting us to drink it. Or the really offensive crap about black people or Native Americans.

I have a terrible opinion of Mormonism but I don't judge individual Mormons until I meet them and I don't judge the whole faith based on any given person who says they practice it.

Debate the faith on its tenants and on the actions of the organisation not on its individual practitioners (who may not be representative in any way of the wider community).

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Response to wickerwoman (Reply #22)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:13 AM

43. This "one member" is a Bishop in the church

Hardly the same as a rank-and-file member.

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Response to _ed_ (Reply #43)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 02:55 PM

64. My 96 year old granny is Catholic.

Do the actions of pedophile priests tell you anything at all about what kind of person she is?

Was everyone in David Koresh's cult the same as him?

Of course not. Good, well-intentioned people get sucked into corrupt organisations. The actions of one (or even many or even the leaders) in those organisations don't tell you "everything you need to know about all Mormons/Catholics/Boy Scouts/Southerners/etc." That's the definition of bigotry and prejudice.

"I have lost respect for (all) Mormons because of Romney."
"I used to think Mormons were hardworking and moral (but now I don't because of Romney)."

Fill in any other group for "Mormons" and any other person for "Romney" and tell me those are not bigoted statements.

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Response to wickerwoman (Reply #64)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 09:02 AM

74. Utter nonsense

I made the point that Romney was a Bishop. Was your granny a bishop?

If Mitt Romney was a Mormon with a position of leadership in 1978, he was an active member of a racist organization. It's not bigotry to point that out. It's also not bigotry to question others' associations.

If your granny puts money in the collection plate, it is being used to pay out billions of dollars to the victims of Catholic child rape. It's not the same as raping kids and covering it up, but her material and emotional support is used to prop up this disgusting organization.

You can't "fill in any other group" because religion is a set of ideas that you believe and an organization that you choose to belong to. You can't do that if you're gay, because being gay is not a choice. Religion is a choice -- a choice that I'll criticize anytime I damn well please.

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Response to _ed_ (Reply #74)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 03:11 PM

79. And the point that I made

was that Romney is the equivalent of the pedophile priests and my grandmother was the equivalent of other Mormons. She goes to church because she's done it her whole life. It's her community. Since her kids moved away, it's the local church that looks in on her and makes sure she's doing OK and gives her a reason to get out of bed most days. I'm sure she does put money in the collection plate and I'm sure some of it goes to pay off child rape victims (just like some of your taxes go toward paying for landmines that cripple children). The church does other things as well and if she chooses to be a member after balancing the good with the bad that's her call.
I'm an atheist and I'm sure as shit not here to defend the Catholic church (or any other church for that matter). Religion is a set of ideas, but it's also wrapped up in culture and ethnicity. There's an even better example down thread. Would it be OK to say "I used to think Jews were smart until I met Joe Liebermen"? Of course not. So why is it fine to say "I used to think Mormons were hardworking until I met Romney"? Any "I used to think x group were y trait until I met z individual" sentence is clearly expressing both a stereotype in the first part and a broad brush in the second.
And like I said in a previous post, criticise religion all you want. I criticise it all the time. But don't criticise individual members of that religion based on behaviour exhibited by other individuals just because they happen to belong to the same group. That's not criticising "choice"; it's displaying prejudice and the assumption of guilt by association.

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Response to _ed_ (Reply #43)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:09 PM

76. DING DING DING!

It's no more fair to tar rank-and-file Mormons with the Rmoney brush than it is to blame lay Catholics for the sins of the pedophile priests.

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Response to grasswire (Reply #17)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 09:36 AM

30. You're judging a group based on the activities of one

How is that better than doing so to any other group?

There are men who commit violent crimes, so my opinion of men is lower. Isn't that the same?

Caribou Barbie is an idiot, so I think a lot less of Alaska.

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Response to treestar (Reply #30)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:26 AM

49. I'm not. Wife had to do a research project for a degree

on the church. We learned almost too much; we are basing our dislike of the institution on the church itself. The self indulgent male hierarchy is just icing on that ugly cupcake.

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Response to treestar (Reply #30)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 07:56 AM

80. You can't choose your gender

You can choose to be a Mormon or not. And "Alaska" is a place, not something you join and tithe to.

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Response to Jayce Cox (Reply #7)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 09:52 AM

34. Mormons don't have a history of racism throught the organization? Like the GOP and it's "southern

....Strategy" why shouldn't it be rational that at the least the de facto racism throughout the organizations (cause it was forced to change it's racial edicts and didn't do it by will of doctrine) is coming through via rMoney?

Thx for the conversation.

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Response to Jayce Cox (Reply #7)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:12 AM

42. Mormon culture certainly does foster certain traits

that are commonly found in it's members.

If Romney was so out of the norm and non representative of their overall value system, why are they, the rank and file almost to a man, so hot and heavy after Romney for President?

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Response to Jayce Cox (Reply #7)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:15 AM

45. well said. n/t

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Response to Jayce Cox (Reply #7)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:22 AM

48. Grasswire doesn't owe you an apology for a thing

Your church has made it so far by maintaining tight control at the top...much like the Catholic church, but only for about 170 years or so. The other posters were correct in that Donny and Marie, and the proximity to ski areas made the LDS seem "mainstream," and even wholesome.

Other than the rank and file helping their neighbors, building gyms in the churches, etc...there is not much more to recommend that anyone join. It is patriarchal, and still maintains the vestiges of racism that it was founded upon. I have been told that many of the native Americans in Utah and surrounding states cannot stand the Mormon church after Joseph Smith used them as a prop in his insane prophecies. I do not know if that is true or not--- but, it does have the ring of possible truth.

Furthermore, you don't see too many Methodists, Presbyterians, Episcopalians or whatever MAINSTREAM denomination you would like to pick posting on several large forums about "escaping." Literally.....escaping. Many people CHOOSE to leave their church...and many people have emotional scars from their church, but few have to "escape."

You sound like a decent person; I am not trying to jump down your throat completely, but in your first couple of posts, asking for an apology for something MANY people have been thinking is ludicrous. I have very little respect for your church, and zero for the Book of Mormon.

As far as the money goes, I would say this article sums it up:

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-07-10/how-the-mormons-make-money

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Response to JanMichael (Reply #48)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 01:51 PM

63. Your right

I was referring to the pre-emptive apology in the original post.

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Response to grasswire (Original post)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 07:02 PM

8. Romney doesn't represent all Mormons...

All churches have members with all types of character issues for better or for worse.......

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Response to grasswire (Original post)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 07:18 PM

9. According to a neighbor of mine who grew up in SLC

Mormons consider good morals doing things such as wearing the undergarment, not smoking, drinking, etc. She assures me it has nothing to with anything the rest of us, at least here, would consider moral or just. Something to consider anyway.

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Response to grasswire (Original post)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 07:27 PM

10. Consider that Joseph Smith was a convicted con-artist...

or as the Mormons call him, "prophet" or "fortune-seeker"...

He started the religion by telling everyone that he had a conversation with an angel named Moroni, when nooooooobody else was watching, and of course Moroni told him that he was destined to be a great leader and prophet. Using information from Moroni, he "found" a big stack of golden plates, which he allowed nooooobody else to look at, and translated them by looking at them through magic gems, that again, nooooooobody else saw, and used these supposed golden plates and magic gems to bring the world the Book of Mormon.

Yeah, and I've got beachfront property in the Utah desert I'd like to sell you...

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #10)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 08:56 AM

28. Right, the WHOLE thing is a huge sham

 

SCAM... see my post downstream re: the Mormon business empire

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #10)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:14 AM

44. Oh...you must be talking about the 4th version of the First Vision....

There were several documented versions...not sure why he finally picked this one?

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Response to grasswire (Original post)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 07:30 PM

11. Totally agree.

If the Romney is an example of what being a Mormon is then they have nothing to offer.

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Response to grasswire (Original post)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 08:22 PM

12. No problem dissing Rmoney or any church hierarchy but to brush all adherents isn't right

I'm loud and proud about what I think of the RCC (not much) yet I know that the vast majority individuals who are Catholic are decent people. The LDS/RLDS Churches have some unusual beliefs, but not any more unusual than belief in literal transubstantiation or a number of mainstream religious beliefs. The official Church hierarchy supports some terrible things (both RCC and LDS here), and condemning that hierarchy/officials is appropriate.

I've known many LDS and RLDS members who are very liberal, and don't find that at odds with their religion. I have my own colorful opinions about Smith, his Church, etc but an unwavering stand on letting people believe any damn fool thing they want (as long as they don't force it on others). Any group is made up of very good people, some very bad people, and a lot somewhere inbetween. Rmoney falls into the "very bad" camp.

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Response to REP (Reply #12)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:52 AM

57. I disagree

If the vast majority were "decent" people...then they would be trying to change things. Not happening!

You cannot be a decent person and do nothing, history has shown us that. Truly decent people stand up and fight

As long as the hierarchy is reaping in the tithes, then those "decent" people are responsible for the terrible things being done...I believe it's called aiding and abetting!



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Response to grasswire (Original post)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 08:28 PM

13. As an atheist I've always been pretty disrespectful of believers. rMoney takes the hypocrisy

to a new level however. Religious belief requires such a suspension of logic in order to give oneself over to some pretty outlandish superstitions, practices, and stories. I'm definitely one of those who mocks, especially religious hypocrites.

So the Rmoney's Mormon faith doesn't necessarily jump out at me as singularly special on the scale of cultishness, weirdness or bizarro behavior.

What DOES ring my bells however about Mormonism is the "Lying for the Lord" bit (http://www.mormonwiki.org/Lying_for_the_Lord) which means Mittsters can realistically lie about everything as long as he can justify it. Since Mitt is arguably the leading Mormon personality in the US at the moment, presumably he can lie about just about anything to keep up appearances and pretensions.

That goes beyond simple hypocrisy and into fraud.

Honestly, I believe Mitt has utilized the "Lying for the Lord" principle all his life. He's used it to be greedy (its to tithe more to the temple!), he's used it to leverage power (reflects on Mormons in general), he's used it for fraud (Cayman Islands tax evasions of course!) - virtually anything can be rationalized away as being done for the good of the church.

The Mormon principle of lying as a religious precept is what's alarming, and I believe Mitt takes it to a whole new level. THAT reflects badly on Mormons in general.

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #13)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 07:27 AM

24. How convenient for him

His religion not only allows him to lie but evidently it's OK to make a profit by hurting people in the process by taking away their jobs so he can be rich and President. No wonder he's so religious.

I suspect though, that Romney's Mormonism is not every Mormon's Mormonism. Just like all other religions. For example, lots of Christians think that if they're successful and rich it means God favors them, so how they get that way is therefore OK since God allowed them to make their wealth by taking jobs or whatever away from others. It's pure logic. If God didn't want them to use other people to get rich then God wouldn't allow it. See?

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Response to grasswire (Original post)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 09:27 PM

16. My brother married into the LDSism.

And my experience with his VERY LARGE in-law family has me convinced that material accumulation is a very important part of their faith. Remember, the church gets 10% of ALL their income, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, if they are to be good-standing members. And members not in good standing are often shunned.

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Response to grasswire (Original post)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 02:34 AM

18. Jon Huntsman is a Mormon

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Response to JI7 (Reply #18)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 09:56 AM

37. I could care less, the de facto organizational racism will come through him also and there's little

...reason that a person of color should expect more.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #18)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:16 AM

46. Huntsman, by his own admission, isn't particularly active in that church

...would be one explanation for their very different perspectives on how to treat human beings.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #18)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 11:01 AM

59. I believe he is a Jack Mormon

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Response to grasswire (Original post)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 02:49 AM

19. There are good and bad people in every faith

Morris Udall, one of the most liberal congressmen around a few decades ago, was a Mormon. Jon Huntsman, one of the few moderate-to-liberal Republicans around who has publicly called out the Republicans on their extremism and is boycotting the GOP Convention because of it and who has done a lot of good work in political and public life, is a Mormon. There are more than a few rank-and-file Mormons who will be voting for President Obama this time around

If we are to judge all religions and non-religions by the actions of a few of their public figures, it really doesn't leave us with anywhere to go

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Response to RFKHumphreyObama (Reply #19)

Tue Jul 24, 2012, 02:47 PM

82. Agreed with you on that.

If we can't stop quarreling over religious differences like that, then how can we get things done?

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Response to grasswire (Original post)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 03:04 AM

20. I used to hang out with some Mormon kids in high school and they were very normal.

They liked to smoke weed and drink beers like everyone else. I have also known some uptight racist Mormons.

I don't think you can judge all Mormons or stereotype them in any way. It's no dumber than any other religion.

There is enough legit stuff to attack Romney about without resorting to religion.

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Response to grasswire (Original post)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 06:52 AM

21. Well, consider that Tricky Dick Nixon was a Quaker...

does knowing that tarnish your opinion of Quakers?

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Response to eShirl (Reply #21)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 08:55 AM

27. No.. what it means

 

is Tricky Dick was a very poor example of a Quaker.

the Quakers are passivists... Nixon authorized our Air Force to bomb the hell out of
Cambodia... killing untold number of innocent people

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Response to Iggy (Reply #27)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 08:53 PM

70. Thanks, that was my point.

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Response to grasswire (Original post)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 08:37 AM

25. The pro-marriage equality Mormon contingent in the Seattle LGBT Pride March

--this year was large, and very well received.

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Response to eridani (Reply #25)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:31 AM

51. Wow, that's really good to hear.



I am not one to judge an entire faith, or any other group by the actions of one of them. It's just not right.

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Response to grasswire (Original post)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 08:48 AM

26. Wait, Have you read the recent Bloomberg

 

Biz Week article on the Mormon business empire? if not, everyone needs to read this.

They just built a $2 Billion dollar megamall across from the main "church" in SLC, yes, that's
Billion with a "B".

there's something very wrong here in terms of this "church" being tax exempt.

Reading the article, one can surmise there's a definite culture of secrecy in the "church", and I
think it's fair to assume that is partly where Rmoney is getting his desire for secrecy regarding
just what he is up to financially.

there's NO WAY I want this business cult, sorry that's the way I see it-- running our nation.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-07-10/how-the-mormons-make-money#r=read

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Response to Iggy (Reply #26)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 11:28 AM

61. Like Bill Maher put it a few weeks ago...

Real charities don't have castles!



Not bad for paying zero taxes!

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #61)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 07:25 PM

67. This is a Temple

Wow you got us! We have big churches, like the Manti, Utah Temple pictured above. Shall I post a picture of the Cathederal that dominates my home town.

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Response to Jayce Cox (Reply #67)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 07:28 PM

68. I'm not a fan of the Catholic Church either.

Another "righteous charity" with castles.

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Response to grasswire (Original post)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 09:26 AM

29. Having done business with Mormons it seems to me that they have two sets of standards.

One for other Mormons and one for the rest of us. They have no qualms about screwing anybody as long as that person is not a Mormon. But then, I have a prejudice against a cult that believes the Garden of Eden is in Missouri. Sorry.

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Response to OregonBlue (Reply #29)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 09:43 AM

31. Hahaha!

My brother married into it, and he and his LDS wife name one of their daughters Missouri, and (wait for it) the other one Eden. I made that connection just now after reading your post.

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Response to sadbear (Reply #31)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 09:49 AM

33. That really is funny. Thanks for the laugh!!

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Response to OregonBlue (Reply #29)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 09:55 AM

36. They are domionist at the very top of the ladder, everyone else is shit to them and they could

...care less about who the step on...you're lower than they and the means meet the ends

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Response to OregonBlue (Reply #29)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 11:03 AM

60. My father was had the same experience

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Response to OregonBlue (Reply #29)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 08:13 PM

69. No less ridiculous than believing the Garden of Eden is (was) anywhere else

The idea that supernatural things happened thousands of years ago but magically they don't today, is no less ridiculous than the idea that supernatural things happened hundreds of years ago but magically they don't today.

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Response to grasswire (Original post)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 09:44 AM

32. i feel rmoney is a sociopath first and perhaps a morman second or third

being a sociopath taints any other label

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Response to grasswire (Original post)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 09:53 AM

35. The defacto racism from the organization is coming through via rMoney. the "foreign" stick is

...aka for the n word.

The mormons have a history of de facto racism through the organization

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Response to grasswire (Original post)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:00 AM

38. People confuse the Mormons with the Amish

or the Quakers... I think Mitt has changed that, and as you say he has reduced the respect for the Mormon church and made it clear that $ acquisition is their number one value.

I'm surprised the wingnut Christian religious crowd isn't more negative towards him.

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #38)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:47 PM

78. Because 1)he's white and 2)he's Not Obama

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Response to grasswire (Original post)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:02 AM

39. Did you know that Harry Reid is a Mormon?

He was raised agnostic and become a Morrmon in college. Here is a quote of him talking about his faith in regards to politics (source wikipedia where footnotes are provided):

"In a 2001 interview he said, "I think it is much easier to be a good member of the Church and a Democrat than a good member of the Church and a Republican." He went on to say that the Democrats' emphasis on helping others, as opposed to what he considers Republican dogma to the contrary, is the reason he's a Democrat. He delivered a speech at Brigham Young University to about 20,000 students on October 9, 2007, in which he expressed his opinion that Democratic values mirror Mormon values. Several Republican Mormons in Utah have contested his faith because of his politics, such as his statements that the church's backing of California's Proposition 8 wasted resources."

Harry has a long and good record on civil rights and on womens equality. I think he fits the first sentance of your OP fairly well.

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Response to grasswire (Original post)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:02 AM

40. A corrupt misogynistic, bigoted, racist religion, what's not to love!

They remind me a lot of the Catholic church except their palace is in Utah and isn't quite so grand.

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Response to grasswire (Original post)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:21 AM

47. "I have lost much respect for Jews in getting to know Joe Lieberman."

Would that be an acceptable statement? You don't see any problem at all with your subject line?

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #47)


Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #47)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:35 AM

53. Sorry, I self deleted. I give up. I "got" what the poster said,

but, others here are knocking themselves out to be "nice" when it's obvious that the OP referred to the institution as a whole. As in "Mormons."

Even more interesting are the trolls....really? Seriously? Take a freaking good look at the responses and tell me if you don't see a couple of fascinating responses.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #47)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 03:01 PM

65. Jew were institutionaly racist and dominionist? NO!! Bad example

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #65)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 03:45 PM

66. "Were". The Democratic party used to be a pro-segregation, racist party.

Institutions evolve.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #47)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 01:44 AM

71. An exact parallel unfortunately

There are all kinds of progressive people who grew up in reactionary religious traditions. Some get sick of if and quit; others don't want to give up the connection with their roots and decide to fight the good fight from inside. I'm not going to sit in judgement on either choice.

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Response to grasswire (Original post)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:34 AM

52. Romney worships money

That's his real religious devotion, the rest is window dressing.

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Response to grasswire (Original post)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:40 AM

55. I never had respect for their religion

It is homophobic, misogynistic, quite anti science, extreme racism was public policy and doctrine until recently, etc. If you live in Utah, forget about getting anywhere professionally if you aren't LDS, or even having too many friends.

I know other religions and denominations have this, too, aInd I have no respect for them, either, as institutions. I am not referring to individuals.

Donny and Marie were terrific PR for them. I mean that.

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Response to grasswire (Original post)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:43 AM

56. think about Donnie and Marie

then you will go back to liking Mormons again.

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Response to grasswire (Original post)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 11:36 AM

62. So you are now basing your opinion about an entire religion on the actions of one man?

 

Wow, that's pretty bigoted of you. Do you base your opinion of a upon one man? Do you base your opinion of Christianity upon one person?

So why are you doing it with Romney and Mormons?

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Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 03:40 AM

72. I had a teacher who was a Mormon, one of the nicest kindest people

I've ever met, she wasn't anything like Rmoney

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Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 03:45 AM

73. I think of all organized religions as cults...

.. with some pretty weird beliefs. Virgin births, transubstantiation, e-meters, mikvahs, kaparot, veils..all like that.

I just ask my believer friends if they want to vote for somebody who wears magic underwear, believes that Satan and Jesus are brothers, and that it's OK to lie..for the Lord, of course.



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Response to Bigmack (Reply #73)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 01:59 PM

75. Well Obama believes that Jesus was the Son of God,

turned water into wine, and rose from the dead after three days.

Is that really more believable than Mormonism?

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #75)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 07:58 AM

81. Quite the same

All are irrational nonsense. However, Christianity has the benefit of age. We know Mormonism was invented by a convicted fraud named Joseph Smith. There are court records of his fraud convictions.

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Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:09 PM

77. "Do as they say, not as they do."--Jesus.

All religions disappoint me. They are not even close to being what they should be, acting like they should act. I guess that, for people, Jesus' words have to be the final say on this. It's horrifying to realize that people are still dying in the name of these so-called religions. Nevertheless, Revelations does suggest that the sins of religion, when stacked one on top of another, have reached as high as heaven. This means God has seen their sins and God will have the final say in the end.

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